25 May 2013 - The Special Representative of the UN Secretary-General for Guinea-Bissau, José Ramos-Horta, was the guest of the "Global Observatory" on 23 May 2013. He was interviewed by Warren Hoge, Senior Adviser at the International Peace Institute (*), which publishes the Observatory. Below are excerpts from the interview.

Uniogbis Editor's note: The interview was conducted over the phone and then transcribed; for easy reading, the interview was slightly edited, without altering the substance or intention of the interviewee.

Warren Hoge: [...] José, welcome. I want to ask you first about the immediate goals of the mission or of the country. I understand that there is a plan to hold elections. When are those elections, and is there a road map to get to that point, and then also to consolidate things once the elections have been held?

José Ramos-Horta: Elections will be held towards the end of the month of November this year, and this transition period will then end, followed by the second phase of the international engagement, and that will be essentially to help assist in a proactive manner to rebuild the institutions of the state.
It has taken some painstaking efforts on the part of all of us here-not only myself...but particularly the political leaders here, the Transitional President, the transitional Prime Minister, the National Assembly, political parties- all engaging in dialogue to produce a [...] road map leading from now until elections in November. It has not been easy, but nothing is easy anywhere when we have so many political parties, differences of opinion, ambitions, etc.
The situation remains largely calm, although [with] much tension; poverty is widespread, deep rooted; child malnutrition and health issues are rampant. The United Nations agencies here, from UNICEF to World Food Programme (WHO), [are] struggling with very limited resources, trying to help out as much as possible.

WH: José, is the country getting assistance from its immediate region? Are groups like the AU and ECOWAS active in helping restore Guinea-Bissau?

JRH: I would commend definitely ECOWAS, the West African regional group, for their active leadership in spite of the many challenges they face in their respective countries; some of them in spite of limited resources. They're the ones who should take credit for acting fast following the coup to prevent the country from sliding further into anarchy. They imposed on the political leaders of this country, the transitional arrangement that is still in place. They prevented the dissolution of the Constitution and the National Assembly. They also helped by providing millions of dollars in cash to pay civil servants, the army, etc. The international community - the European Union and... bilateral donors - while some have imposed sanctions on the government, stopping, for instance, some direct government-funded programmes, they have not stopped humanitarian assistance. And this has prevented Guinea-Bissau from becoming a total humanitarian catastrophe and total political chaos. We have a good partnership - the United Nations, the European Union, African Union, ECOWAS, the Portuguese-speaking community, the UN partner agencies - assisting in different ways within the constraints of our own budget limitations to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and put Guinea-Bissau on track, in terms of restoration of constitution order.

WH: I mentioned at the outset that Guinea-Bissau is well known as an international drug traffic place. It has a coastline that's usable by smugglers, it has all those 80+ islands where airplanes can land and take off and transport drugs to Europe and back to United States. Is there a plan for trying to eradicate that drug traffic, and does that plan involve substituting drugs with something else that can create an economy for the people of Guinea-Bissau?

JRH: First, as we know, the drugs originate in Latin America....Guinea-Bissau, like most West African states, [is] primarily a transit route for the drug business. There is obviously a serious drug problem here; many people are involved, at different levels of politics, government, army. But I still have difficulties accepting the label of "narco-state." If Guinea-Bissau is a narco-state ... I could mention few others that fit that description even better... Regardless of whether it is indeed a narco-state or not, it is important that the international community, particularly Europe and the United States, if they believe that Guinea-Bissau presents a serious threat because it is a narco-state, should re-engage the country immediately to providing assistance, to prevent the drug cartels of Latin America from making use of such a fragile, poor country [...] . I made this case in Washington, New York, Paris just now, and I am confident that we will see renewed financial, technical assistance to Guinea-Bissau...working with the authorities here to improve their maritime surveillance, judiciary and the police so that they can do a better job in preventing the country from continuing to be used by the drug cartels.

WH: Now Guinea-Bissau is one of the few countries participating in the work of the UN Peacebuilding Commission. How is that working out?

JRH: I was very pleased in my recent discussions in New York with the Peacebuilding Commission, with the Head of the Peacebuilding Support Office, Assistant Secretary-General Judith Cheng-Hopkins...there is a readiness to re-engage Guinea-Bissau as soon as we have a new transitional government in place, hopefully in the next few days a week or two, in order to assist in some very vital areas, like continuing what the Peacebuilding Fund has done in the recent past with regard to the modernization, reform, of the armed forces, the judiciary, and some other fast-track initiatives to improve democratic governance in this country.
And I believe that the Peacebuilding Fund is...one of the best, most innovative initiatives of the United Nations. It should be supported, so that it can deploy more resources into transition situations like Guinea-Bissau, fragile situations that cannot afford to wait for too long for donor funding to assist in rebuilding the institutions of the state.

WH: Now the military forces in Guinea-Bissau have over the years intervened to take over the government, and in more recent years, they've actually participated in the drug trade themselves, or at least they've been charged with participating in the drug trade. Is there a plan for rebuilding the military forces into a smaller, but more efficient and reliable force? And are there officers already there on which you can build a new force, officers who have not been prejudiced or tainted by the behaviour of their bosses who may have participated in the drug trade?

JRH: Not, obviously, everybody in the army is involved in corruption and drugs. There are some, but the vast majority of the soldiers and officers are simply people who have been neglected for years ... the army, as an institution, does not exist as such. There are people with uniforms, there are people with weapons living [in] extremely poor, precarious conditions. [...] . In such conditions, it is a bit too much to expect that there can be discipline and ethics. So, we have to assist in reorganizing the army from A to Z, and this will take time, from a minimum of at least two-three to five years. ECOWAS, particularly Nigeria and Senegal, are best positioned to lead this process; they have already started putting in money to rebuild the barracks and at the same time helping with the pension fund, in which the Peacebuilding Fund of the United Nations will also be engaged.
There are young army officers, some highly educated, and others can be sent to take courses in West Africa. I have had discussions with the French as well as with the Nigerian and Senegalese, and they are more than happy to take officers into their academies. Brazil also has had significant programmes in assisting with law and order, as with police training. The Brazilians set up a very good police training academy here, both in terms of infrastructure and equipment. However, it is not yet operating, precisely because of the coup. As soon as we have a new transitional government in place, the Brazilians are prepared to resume immediately their assistance in the police training programme.

WH: I want to ask you about the nation's population. They have been through a lot in the forty years of Guinea-Bissau's independence. They have a lot of reason not to trust anybody, but are there individuals and civil society institutions on which you can restore the country? Is there a disposition within the population to change Guinea-Bissau in the profound manner that it needs to change?

JRH: There are many, many good people in Guinea-Bissau. In the civil society...this country has a very high number of highly educated people with Masters degrees, PhDs. Some of them work in very senior positions in international bodies.
There is, for instance, Mr. Carlos Lopes, one of the very top Under-Secretary-Generals of the United Nations in charge of the entire UN Economic Commission for Africa based in Addis Ababa. He is a top academic. There was another one, a very senior World Bank official from Guinea-Bissau, Mr. Paulo Gomes, and many others. I just mentioned these two, but there are numerous lawyers, prosecutors, judges; there are hundreds of Bissau-Guinean doctors. However, they are in Europe...Portugal, Belgium, France. There isn't a lack of highly educated people; however, they're [abroad], because of the political uncertainty, or because of economic, financial conditions. So, if there is a significant re-engagement by the international community to rebuild the country and the institutions of the state, there will be no difficulties in bringing back some of these highly educated people. However, even here in Guinea-Bissau, there are people who never left in spite of the difficulties, working in miserable conditions in hospitals, and elsewhere. They should be chosen first, supported first with better conditions, with more dignity, so that they feel recognized and compensated for their sacrifices.

WH: Let me continue on this optimistic side and ask you: Guinea-Bissau is a nation that brings together many ethnic groups, yet it has been spared the kind of ethnic violence that has emerged in other countries in its region. How do you explain that?

JRH: Well, I often wonder [...] and am pleased that [...] these very distinct groups - so many of them in a small territory, distinct ethnic groups, professing different religions, disappointed, betrayed for many decades, living in extreme poverty - they have not descended into anarchy, violence, like looting stores, vandalizing private and state property, etc. It's really a magnificent people, and they should be helped and compensated for it, rather than continue to be neglected.
...Bissau-Guineans should teach us in other parts of the world, how, in spite of poverty, they have avoided civil wars...Ethnic-religious conflicts. I am still puzzled. So, I can only say I am very pleased, because this is one quality and one less problem for us to have to deal with. There is no civil war here, there is no gang warfare here. There are already, naturally good, existing social conditions, political conditions, to build a more stable, prosperous future for the country.

WH: Our guest today for the Global Observatory has been José Ramos-Horta, the SRSG for Guinea-Bissau. On behalf of all of us here, we wish you the best of luck there in Guinea-Bissau.

JRH: Thank you Warren, and God bless you all.

(*)The International Peace Institute, an independent, international think-tank located in New York and Vienna, dedicated to the settlement and prevention of armed conflict.